Session Start: Fri May 26 17:22:53 2006
Session Ident: #rainbow
* Now talking in #rainbow
* Topic is '12Official 6Rainbow 4Rising 8Alliance 9Pub, come join us for a colorful chat | http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8679/17db.png | 9Contrary to popular belief, this is NOT the Red Alliance channel ;) - Your one stop shop for all your suicidal needs'
* Set by LokusT on Sat Apr 22 12:51:45
<kva> hello, Twinge
<Kickitup> I specifically remember IPG got RAGE to attack SDM, although I'm not sure it matters at this point.
<kva> sorry, it's 1:30 AM again and I am a bit aggressive
<TsarVandall> do not cross the lines of pre ceasefire and post ceasefire
<johnclark> hi Muffins
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<Hampster> sorry bout that
<johnclark> we are here discussing the possibility of peace between IPG and ROOS et al
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<kva> Hampster: don't worry it happens
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<kva> but if you copy log - copy all of it :-)
<kva> he said he'll be back
<Hampster> oh I always do
<Hampster> I am general an honest and fair person
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<Bambi> hi davva 
<kva> Hampster: that wasn't something I suggested
<Bambi> boom 
<davva> hey there
<Hampster> unless you are dishonest and unfair with myself or friends
<TsarVandall> hello davva 
<kva> say just some of my phrases are too harsh if you took them out of context :-)
<davva> hello again
<davva> so whats happening in here then?
<Hampster> I will forgive harsh phrases
<kva> well, we need someone from IPG to confirm that IPG want to stop this war
<Hampster> however, some, like lekter, have been repeatedly harsh throughout entire convos
<davva> it seems the only way to stop this now is to go back to full scale war
<kva> Hampster: really, all I want is to stop this war, not destroy anyone or something like that
<davva> all peace talks have failed due to unrealistic demands
<Hampster> afaik IPG only wants to destroy us
<Hampster> and that is the only outcome they will be satisfied with
<TsarVandall> when was last time IPG sent a fleet to attack a ROOS continent?
<Hampster> not sure, I am forum-banned
<[ROOS]Twinge> Unrealistic demands?  after what IPG has done?  Hardly.
<davva> i have not been a part of the talks but from what i hear you have certain demands that we can never agree on
<davva> i think the last fleets were on day 147
<kva> Twinge - what are your conditions once again?
<Hampster> what demands would those be davva?
<TsarVandall> that really sounds like they want to destroy you there, attacking 3 days ago
<[ROOS]Twinge> Since IPG refused to offer anything on their own, they decided we had to come up with some demands
<davva> i am getting thisinfo second hand so dont think this is hte gospel
<[ROOS]Twinge> So, we asked around to those involved, and came up with a few options
<davva> i heard you wanted certain members kicked from IPG... i have no names but i cant agree to that
<[ROOS]Twinge> Option 1) Each member of IPG will launch 12% of their fleet (real creatures, not monkeys) at another IPG member who still has their other 88% home.  This should kill off aproximately 8% of every member's fleet.  (Scans can verify damage done.)
<[ROOS]Twinge> Option 2) Free hits on IPG for a period of 24 hours (no futher launches would be made after 24 hours had passed) by anyone in SDM, ROOS, or BT.  A few hours advanced notice will be given where possible, so IPG fleets can be saved.  Anyone that goes into holiday mode to avoid these attacks is to be either kicked from IPG permanently or given up to be attacked as soon as they return (no matter when they do return).
<[ROOS]Twinge> Option 3) IPG score drop of 10% of their total score, not counting Lekter or anyone else leaving the alliance or going into holiday mode.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Option 4) IPG disbands for at least 12 hours, leaving members free to be attacked by anyone in Evo.  After 12 hours have passed they are free to form again and rejoin.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Option 5) Immediately kick Schual, Pelze, Che, and Max for breaking the ceasefire.
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<[ROOS]Twinge> Additional (Included for each option)
<[ROOS]Twinge> If and when Schual, Pelze, or Che return from holiday mode, free hits will be available on them from ROOS, BT, and SDM.  These hits would be made before any IPG members attacked them (if they were leaving the game for good).
<[ROOS]Twinge> We get one free attack on Lektar (3 ticks) before IPG hits him.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Times for actions to take place would be agreed upon by both parties, and should be soon.
<FlyMachine> sounds unreasonable to me
<davva> free hits.... this is what BT are having now we have not launched as an alliance against BT in i cant remember
<FlyMachine> sounds very unreasonable to me
<kva> Twinge
<kva> really reasonable
<kva> (01:30:08) [ROOS]Twinge: Option 2) Free hits on IPG for a period of 24 hours (no futher launches would be made after 24 hours had passed) by anyone in SDM, ROOS, or BT.  A few hours advanced notice will be given where possible, so IPG fleets can be saved.  Anyone that goes into holiday mode to avoid these attacks is to be either kicked from IPG permanently or given up to be attacked as soon as they return (no matter when they do return).
<davva> yeah sure option 4 is goijng to work isnt it i thought you meant reasonable demands
<[ROOS]Twinge> kva: I agree.  Option 2 is MORE than fair.
<Hampster> Davva: 4 IPG members attacked a BT member w/ DOOP on 2 occasions
<kva> no launches took place in past 4 days or so
<kva> affair is closed
<[ROOS]Twinge> davva: As I said, these are what several people jointly came up with.  That's why there are several options available
<kva> yesterday they defended with us
<kva> are you satisfied?
<TsarVandall> What does SDM have to do with these options, were they affected by break in ceasefire
<[ROOS]Twinge> They were affected by IPG's deciet and treachery, yes.  They are involved.
<FlyMachine> :S
<FlyMachine> :S
<kva> wait
<Hampster> No TV, but they are no longer Top 10 because of the doubleteam of Rage and IPG
* davva reading backlog
<kva> Hampster: they're out of top 10 because some of them are in ROOS
<TsarVandall> you sure it has nothing to do with SDM joinging ROOS
<kva> please don't forget it
<[ROOS]Twinge> They were out of the top 10 before a single member switched.
<Hampster> yes
<Hampster> as Twinge said
<[ROOS]Twinge> Speaking of which, anyone wanna pass me the backlog?  I'm kind of chatting blind here.
<Hampster> they were knocked below Top 10
<TsarVandall> well, then I accept it as true
<TsarVandall> :P
<FlyMachine> :S
<FlyMachine> this is nonsense
<johnclark> those are really unreasonable demands
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<Bambi> what a strange person 
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<[ROOS]Twinge> john: Option 2 is more than reasonable.  It's hardly comprable to IPG's actions.
<davva> sure is i cant make a decision for my political members... i am only saying my bit.. and i havent seen anything here to change my mind that these terms are not going to work.
<kva> Twinge - option 2 is past
<kva> you already had what you want from it
<[ROOS]Twinge> Uh?  Only because Sorrow defended the wrong target.
<kva> sorrow and rainbow
<kva> and davva - once again, when was your last attack on ROOS?
<davva> not to mention IPG's main fleets
<[ROOS]Twinge> Today, kva.
<davva> i will check
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<TsarVandall> attack on who?
<Hampster> damn connection
<Bambi> hi 
<davva> day 147 20:5 first fleet launched
<davva> we cancelled another on day 148 to give these talks a chance
<[ROOS]Twinge> 9 hours ago there was a launch on ROOS.
<[ROOS]Twinge> and the day before
<[ROOS]Twinge> and the day before
<TsarVandall> WHO?
<davva> from who?
<[ROOS]Twinge> Subj	Incoming Attack	Date	2006-05-26 14:26:20
<[ROOS]Twinge> Incoming 22760 creatures from (2,10,7:f) [[IPG]] Piratski of honoluluchix. They will be here to ATTACK in 7 ticks.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Subj	Incoming Attack	Date	2006-05-26 12:56:42
<[ROOS]Twinge> Incoming 22945 creatures from (2,10,7:f) [[IPG]] Piratski of honoluluchix. They will be here to ATTACK in 7 ticks.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Subj	Incoming Attack	Date	2006-05-26 12:55:02
<[ROOS]Twinge> Incoming 3957 creatures from (2,10,7:j) [[IPG]] Rinderhirt of Chickenvillage. They will be here to ATTACK in 7 ticks.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Subj	Incoming Attack	Date	2006-05-26 12:51:29
<[ROOS]Twinge> Incoming 24191 creatures from (2,10,7:e) [[IPG]] Absolut of Vodkastan. They will be here to ATTACK in 7 ticks.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Subj	Incoming Attack	Date	2006-05-26 12:49:45
<[ROOS]Twinge> Incoming 11464 creatures from (2,10,7:g) [[IPG]] Maxentius of glamourgirlcountry. They will be here to ATTACK in 7 ticks.
<Hampster> the same ones we want kicked
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<[ROOS]Twinge> Che launched recently too just not today
<Hampster> the ones who are causing peace to be impossible
<davva> What you cant understand why they attack?
<[ROOS]Twinge> ...What?
<davva> how many weeks have they been attacked repeatedly
<[ROOS]Twinge> I was never complaining that they attacked.
<kva> wait
<kva> no, davva - Twinge is right
<[ROOS]Twinge> You were saying that no one had attacked, and I was correcting you.
<kva> well. then back to drawing board
<kva> Twinge - is your list of options exhaustive?
<davva> there has been a lack of communication in certain areas of IPG this is a result of it
<Hampster> as I told you initially Kva
<kva> and can we get a cease-fire from both of you?
<Hampster> IPG are the aggressors
<Hampster> not us
<[ROOS]Twinge> exhaustive?  That's what we've come up with, anyway.
<davva> like i say i only know part of the story so dont take my words too seriously as i do not have the whole picture
<Hampster> we have tried continually for peace
<Hampster> and have yet to get it
<kva> and davva - if IPG violate this cease-fire we won't get involved
<kva> Hampster: no, you didn't yet 
<davva> which ceasefire... the one which hasnt had a chacne to start or a new one being proposed now?
<kva> Twinge - it's not up to me to decide but your options aren't acceptable in my opinion
<kva> new one. at least before we start to escalate it once again till everyone else gets involved on either side
<[ROOS]Twinge> And we didn't think IPG's constant lies and backstabbing were acceptable either, kva.
<kva> which isn't a pleasure
<davva> i will not kick members from IPG nor will i condone free strikes by everyone and ther favorite pet
<kva> Twinge - till now you stand firm - you want to continue this war
<Hampster> kva, the only ones we asked kicked are the ones who are stopping peace, I mean honestly, it is in IPG's best interest to punish those working against peace
<davva> it seems these lies are the result of lack of communication not a desire to blatantly lie
<[ROOS]Twinge> If we have to.  Consider it a matter of honor.
<kva> my point is that if you want to continue you won't fight IPG alone anymore
<kva> matter of honor on our side too
<[ROOS]Twinge> davva: I disagree.  If it is, then IPG has truly no coordination, and isn't an alliance so much as a loose association of guys.
<kva> so well, let's have fun. it won't be fun
<[ROOS]Twinge> kva: That's a shame, considering it's a pretty fair 1vs1 fight at this point anyway.
<kva> Twinge - they lost their central coordinator
<[ROOS]Twinge> IPG still has 50% more average member score than we do
<[ROOS]Twinge> kva: Yeah, but we're talking about well before lekter left.  Nobody ever told us the same story.
<davva> say what you want.... i am no match for other politicians in IPG so i am obviously going to do no good here it seems
<FlyMachine> they have 400M score less than you do
<Hampster> which gives them  ~38 logical members
<kva> Twinge. really, I am tired
<Hampster> where as we have 20 members
<[ROOS]Twinge> As am I
<Hampster> and SDM may hae 20
<kva> if you don't want us to launch - agree on cease-fire and manage to talk about peace
<kva> I already proposed it
<davva> realistic terms to cease fire might work
<kva> if you do - continue to insist on continuing
<[ROOS]Twinge> kva: we have offered our possible condtions.  They are more than reasonable after what IPG has done to us time and time again.  They are welcome to offer a counter proposal.
<kva> take a brake, sit and think
<[ROOS]Twinge> davva: how is a mere 1 day of free hits unreasonable?
<TsarVandall> WHen you include SDM in these options, were they attacked or just hurt emotionaly but deceit and lies
<johnclark> twinge: davva said he can't speak for all of his alliance
<TsarVandall> *by
<davva> it is not just one day though... we have already been letting BT get away with it for a while
<kva> well, I am going to smoke and to sleep
<Thendain> sleep well kva.
<FlyMachine> night kva
<kva> you'll drive me crazy soon
* Thendain jumps in.
<davva> hehe
<Thendain> ok..been watching for a bit.
<FlyMachine> noooooo
<FlyMachine> noooooo Thendain
<FlyMachine> :P
<[ROOS]Twinge> Tsar:  What??  IPG declared Jihad on SDM, and got as many people as they could to attack them.  They are plenty involved.
<Thendain> ok...
<davva> i think i have read half of what has gone past my eyes... i cant touch type you know
<kva> Twinge - I stated our options and our seniours heard them many times 
<TsarVandall> but that ended in ceasefire and it was broken toward ROOS and BT
<TsarVandall> was ceasefire broken towards SDM
<[ROOS]Twinge> Tsar: Just because they haven't been affected by IPG's most recent misdeed doesn't mean they are involved.
<Hampster> Twinge forget it
<davva> terms of ceasfire broken by ROOS swelling its ranks from SDM to cracnk the conflict back up again
<TsarVandall> well, then all of you Options are unacceptable tbh
<Hampster> if RNB wants to attack us
<Hampster> let them
<[ROOS]Twinge> We don't want to fight Rainbow, but it appears we have no choice.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Tsar: IPG's actions have been far less acceptable. 
<johnclark> you have a choice
<Gigs> No choice?
<davva> admitedly IPG are not innocent herebut neither are both sides
<Hampster> (19:49:59) davva: terms of ceasfire broken by ROOS swelling its ranks from SDM to cracnk the conflict back up again  <<< That was never a condition
<Hampster> if SDM and RoOS want to merge
<Hampster> we should be allowed to
<Thendain> do you have SDM people in ROOS?
<davva> true
<[ROOS]Twinge> Indeed.  And it's not like we attacked IPG, or threatened them, or anything like that.
<davva> but the timing was impecable
<[ROOS]Twinge> At that point
<Hampster> SDM was badly damaged
<Hampster> many of their members wanted to join us
<johnclark> the best choice now is for IPG and ROOS to agree to a ceasefire
<Hampster> wheras others just wanted to hang out
<Kickitup> again?
<[ROOS]Twinge> johnclark: I agree.  So which option do you think they should take?
<Thendain> ok. so the whole score diff and average is out of whack due to SDM involvement. yes?
<Hampster> yes
<johnclark> unconditional bilateral ceasefire
<Thendain> then it can't be considered.
<Gigs> ceasefire
<davva> that would have worked
<Kickitup> that was the terms of the last ceasefire
<[ROOS]Twinge> johnclark: Unacceptable.  We offered that a while ago; IPG declined it.
<johnclark> twinge: you have taken all you need from IPG
<Thendain> Twinge: when and how was it broken?
<johnclark> they are disorganized, and out of the top 10, or almost
<Gigs> yeah everyone has done stuff, does that mean there can be no resolution?
<[ROOS]Twinge> johnclark: No.  Not after what they have done.  This is far too much to go unpunished, it's as simple as that.
<johnclark> imho, ROOS has had it's revenge on IPG
<Kickitup> ah but who done stuff first?
<FlyMachine> doesn't matter
<Thendain> kick: does it matter?
<Hampster> Thendian: IPG attacked us and our ally BT
<[ROOS]Twinge> I've tried to be as reasonable as possible through this whole conflict
<Gigs> in negotiations, you look forward
<Hampster> four days ago
<FlyMachine> lets stop this nonsense blaming talk here
<Kickitup> wterms of agreement sure it matters who breaks the agreement
<Hampster> during the ceasefire
<davva> realy... it is so long ago now this seems daft to argue about....
<FlyMachine> we want a ceasefire between all parties
<johnclark> i think i speak for all of us that Rainbow will not tolerate any more unfairness in this war...
<johnclark> previous unfairness is of no concern to us
<[ROOS]Twinge> FlyMachine: We do too.  Do you have a ocunterproposal?  Or, which option would you like to take?
<davva> straight down the line ceasefire we put the creatures back in the cage and we all go home
<johnclark> does ROOS take davva's proposal?
<[ROOS]Twinge> johnclark: This is no grandfather caluse.  Past actions are not going to be ignored so easily.
<Gigs> Surely ceasefire is wiser than escalation
<Kickitup> Anyone taking bets on who would break a new ceasefire?
<[ROOS]Twinge> I haven't heard a reasonable proposal.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Gigs: I agree.
<TsarVandall> and then if this ceasefire is broken, offenders are free grabs for offendee
<davva> neither have i... sorry but i will not kick members or agree to 24 hours of attacks either
<Gigs> So we all agree a ceasefire is the better option, what is the sticking point for ROOS? a past transgression?
<[ROOS]Twinge> Gigs; MULTIPLE, and REPEATED transgressions.
<FlyMachine> my proposal...all ceasefire now
<[ROOS]Twinge> We aren't going to let IPG off with a slap on the wrist, I'm sorry.
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<Hampster> Kickitup: RoOS has never broken a ceasefire.
<Gigs> So as punishment you will decline a ceasefire and choose escalation?
<[ROOS]Twinge> Gigs: If we must.  We think that is foolish and pointless, but if IPG is unwilling to offer anything for it's actions, then we will have no choice.
<Gigs> What do you want them to offer?
<Hampster> Gigs: we will choose whatever we must in order to protect our alliance and our honor
<Gigs> I missed that part
<[ROOS]Twinge> Or we can continue fighting IPG 1vs1 as well.  Several options.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Gigs: We gave 5 options, since IPG refused to come up with thier own proposal.
<TsarVandall> Gigs, let me psot the options to you
<Thendain> tv: me too please?
<Hampster> (19:30:14) [ROOS]Twinge: Option 1) Each member of IPG will launch 12% of their fleet (real creatures, not monkeys) at another IPG member who still has their other 88% home.  This should kill off aproximately 8% of every member's fleet.  (Scans can verify damage done.)
<Hampster> (19:30:17) [ROOS]Twinge: Option 2) Free hits on IPG for a period of 24 hours (no futher launches would be made after 24 hours had passed) by anyone in SDM, ROOS, or BT.  A few hours advanced notice will be given where possible, so IPG fleets can be saved.  Anyone that goes into holiday mode to avoid these attacks is to be either kicked from IPG permanently or given up to be attacked as soon as they return (no matter when they do return).
<Hampster> (19:30:21) [ROOS]Twinge: Option 3) IPG score drop of 10% of their total score, not counting Lekter or anyone else leaving the alliance or going into holiday mode.
<Hampster> (19:30:25) [ROOS]Twinge: Option 4) IPG disbands for at least 12 hours, leaving members free to be attacked by anyone in Evo.  After 12 hours have passed they are free to form again and rejoin.
<Hampster> (19:30:45) [ROOS]Twinge: Option 5) Immediately kick Schual, Pelze, Che, and Max for breaking the ceasefire.
<TsarVandall> hampter took care of it :P
<Hampster> I always do :-P
<Hampster> tis why I exist :-p
* Thendain whistles
<Gigs> Yikes I can't see any alliance agree to 1 - 4\
<johnclark> Twinge: all of those options demand some degree of coordination inside IPG, which they have not because of their current state
<[ROOS]Twinge> gigs: 2 is hardly unreasonable at all.
<davva> BT are alreadygetting their free hits i say again
<[ROOS]Twinge> john: 2 doesn't really.  3 doesn't, but would take longer without coordination
<Hampster> Johnclark: without co-ordination they have thrown themselves headlong into war with us
<Hampster> twice
<davva> i will not kick any member of IPG
<Hampster> so they don't seem to care
<[ROOS]Twinge> davva: fine, so 4 and 5 are out.  What other option would you prefer?
<davva> i am left no choice but to go to war
<Gigs> As a third party observer, would I, as a senior, choose any of those options or go down swinging? I would choose the latter
<Thendain> i have a question for Twinge and Davva.....
<Hampster> with support of two allies larger than us :-)
<FlyMachine> wtf?
<davva> option 3.... drop of score seems like it has already happened to be honest we are not on the rankings table any more
<[ROOS]Twinge> davva: because of holiday mode.  ou were still in actual 7th place last I checked.
<Gigs> You may think it is reasonable but is ROOS a smaller alliance than it was before the war?
<TsarVandall> what have you dropped in score davva, about 500M in past 1-2 weeks
<[ROOS]Twinge> Gigs: These options are purely a result of IPG's actions.
<Thendain> i have a couple questions...some for twinge, some for davva....
<Gigs> I understand that Twinge
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<Thendain> twinge: after ceasefire, would ROOS send all SDM back to SDM?
<davva> taking into account that those who have gone into holiday are 90% sure not to return to the game.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Tsar: 350, over 3 weeks, after they jumped us, lied to us, and backstabbed us.
<Gigs> I am not arguing Twinge, just getting the facts
<johnclark> brb
<[ROOS]Twinge> Thendain: How does that affect this discussion?
<TsarVandall> and if those are only options, then escalation seems to be ours
<Thendain> because you are talking about top 10 score.
<Thendain> and obviously it is a Big thing to you.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Tsar: Those are the options we have come up with.  IPG has yet to offer any reasonable alternative themselves.
<Hampster> Thendian: SDM's  joining us is *not* to increase our score
<Gigs> davva, does IPG acknowledge that they have transgressed upon ROOS?
<Thendain> i never said it was hampster.
<Thendain> But, twinge keeps bringing up member numbers, total score, average scores...
<Thendain> all changed by SDM joining ROOS.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Thendain: Any SDM member that wishes to stay with us can and will, any that wish to return to SDM can and will.  
<Hampster> nor did SDM join us to war against IPG
<davva> from reading the above posts it would look like it
<Hampster> we were at peace with IPG when SDM joined u
<Gigs> so hthere is no dispute about the transgressions, good
<Hampster> *us
<Thendain> ok. other than that one wave attack that Twinge posted earlier, have there been any other IPG attacks in the last couple days?
<Gigs> Is there no other punishment available? IPG seems to be down at the moment
<davva> but at the same time you have not been the perfect neighbour either... i have no facts at hand to backup this claim so i can say no more on the matter
<[ROOS]Twinge> Thendain: Every day.  They've hit Dewman 3 times in a row now.
<davva> MUffins would be the one with all the details and it seems he has got no where even then
<Thendain> 3 days in a row?
<Thendain> dewman's coords please twinge?
<[ROOS]Twinge> Gigs: Take a look at thier average member score and tell me they are down.  As I've repeatedly said, These are the options that those affected have thought up.  IPG is welcome to fofer a ocunterproposal.  I think Option 2 is mroe than fair, myself.
<[ROOS]Twinge> (2,10,10:l)
<Hampster> most RoOS members are ranked between 300-600
<Gigs> Well I am not convinced IPG could unilaterally live up to any of the above options, it would take an effort of each member, We can't even get all our members to post correctly
<Hampster> wheras IPG members are between 40-300
<Thendain> Twinge: looks to me like dewman has been hit once in last 48....
<FlyMachine> don't selectively use average score / total score when it fits your purpose
<[ROOS]Twinge> Gigs: Free land hits would not.  Also, Score drop would be slower if uncoordinated, but possible.
<Thendain> and so their average score is high....was it that high when you started?
<Hampster> Thendian I have proof to the otherwise
<Hampster> yes Thendian
<[ROOS]Twinge> Thendain: Look closer?
<Thendain> pm me hapmster?
<Thendain> i have it up. last seen 0 hours ago, score over 48 ticks.
<Gigs> Free? all it would take is a small 3 or 4 person contingent in the alliance to retalliate on their own to break it again
<Thendain> i see *1* plummet and a few small ups and downs that could be from purchases easily.
<TsarVandall> are we getting anywhere here, options are unexceptable, I would leave any alliance whose leader would accept any of those terms
<TsarVandall> is that really what ROOS are after?
<[ROOS]Twinge> Tsar: We NEVER wanted to decimate ANY alliance.  We only ocntinue this war as a matter of honor because of IPG's actions.
<[ROOS]Twinge> We have offered peace under more reasonable conditions multiple times, and they have been declined.  IPG has continued to build up transgressions, and here we are.
<TsarVandall> here we are....
<Gigs> I was not involved then
<TsarVandall> ....and getting no where
<Thendain> Twinge: can you give Davva a chance to bring any possible options back to IPG to get discussed? Davva is Not IPG leader...and i doubt can make a final decision here.
<Thendain> Here is what i propose For Now.
<davva> thats true for sure
<Thendain> 1) Davva goes back to IPG, does an Alliance-Wide PM calling for cessation of all attacks as cease-fire is being discussed.
<Thendain> 2) he is given...say...24 hours to get a decision out of IPG leadership.
<davva> We may be able to make ground on one of the proposals... but it will take some working out internally, a weekend is not a good for getting everyone togoether so 24 hrs is not ok. 
<Thendain> 3) he does what he can to get the current attack Recalled.
<Thendain> davva: can you get a good percentage of leadership together?
<davva> 1. I will send an alliance pm calling for no attacks... on one condition we are not provoked to do so during this weekend.
* Thendain winces
<Thendain> other parts?
<davva> its coming wait on
<mefisto> ooo i got a +
<Thendain> hello mef.
<johnclark> lol mef
<Thendain> davva, put out that alliance-wide pm to try to stop attacks.
<davva> 2. The 24 hr bit is too short a time. give us until monday evening... i say this as i know some members are away for the weekend
<[ROOS]Twinge> We already know how little worth there is in an alliance pm asking for no attacks, though :P
* Thendain winces. "it Is memorial day weekend in the states...lots of people actually on vacation.
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<davva> ok then i will threaten them with my monkeys!
<mefisto> maybe now bambi will pay attention to me
<Thendain> add to the PM that if attacks are Made then ROOS will get more concessions for a cease-fire.
<johnclark> bambi, spank mefisto
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<johnclark> rofl
<FlyMachine> o.O
* Hampster fluffles Bambi
<mefisto> wow
<Hampster> damnit
<mefisto> i think she fainted
<Thendain> Twinge: question for a limitation to option 2. :)
<mefisto> hi all, btw
<Thendain> Twinge: would it be possible to Limit the attacks to the offenders that are causing the problem instead of All of IPG?
<davva> i will take the options back to ipg with and see what can be agreed upon... some may be willing to have incoming free attacks so my refusal of this could be drowned out.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Thendain: Doubtful, since the biggest offenders are on holiday mode.
<Gigs> I am not even sure what a free attack is
<Thendain> are those including the attackers in this waves?
<davva> i can say no more at this point... i will pm to get future attacks stopped and see what i can do with the current ones.
<[ROOS]Twinge> No, they aren't on ebg mode AFAIK
<Hampster> I like Thendians idea
<Thendain> free attack: side 1 attacks side 2. side 2 agrees to not send defense to target or counter-attack any attacker from side 1.
<davva> Twinge... have you got all the details of the current attack? i am somewhat in the dark on this one.
<Gigs> can they save their fleet? can they MP?
<[ROOS]Twinge> That might be a reasonable compromise though Tehndain.  They can save fleets, but no MP
<Thendain> save fleet yes. mp, no.
<[ROOS]Twinge> davva: I pasted it several minutes ago
<Hampster> Max, Che, Lekter, Piratski, Schual, Absolut, and Pelze are offered up as targets (if they are on holiday mode they are attacked when they return, booted if they holiday again)
<Hampster> and the rest of IPG is saved
<[ROOS]Twinge> Piratski Rinderhirt, Absolut, and Maxentius
<Thendain> that way we get You what you want twinge, punishment for the offenders...
<Thendain> and davva gets an option to keep most of IPG off the target list.
<Gigs> I thought Lekter left
<[ROOS]Twinge> Thendain: There may be some discrepency on who is considered an offender, though ;)
<TsarVandall> I still think SDM should be romved from this equation, these Options are in reference to a ceasefire that was broken that was not broken to SDM lies or not
<[ROOS]Twinge> Gigs: Hah, yeah, so did we ;)
<davva> Lekter is still here in spirit he has been here so long he cant find his way home
<Thendain> then lay it out. pick names.
<Thendain> Name offenders at some point Twinge.
<[ROOS]Twinge> TsarVandall: No, they are in reference to IPG's repeated and multiple transgressions.  The breaking of the ceasefire was only one of these.
<Thendain> since You seemed to have people in mind earlier.
<Hampster> Twinge
<Hampster> back to the private channel for a moment
<TsarVandall> it is semi important but what transgressions
<Hampster> we'll be right back 
<davva> right then i will try to figure out how to get the data from this screeninto a text file and make sense of it.
<Thendain> ok.
<TsarVandall> if I am understanding correctly, then you should be requesting free lands from all that launched on you from pre ceasefire
<Thendain> davva looking for that attack this time? give me an email. will send you a text file real fast. pm me the email addy.
<davva> Thendain: davva.pick@gmail.com
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<johnclark> what do you all say (Twinge et al + davva et al) to meet here in 24 hrs time?
<johnclark> and you guys have yourselves a ceasefire for 24 hrs?
<Gigs> 24 hours, not 3 days
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<davva> no can do i will be 100miles away from home in the middle of the lake district
<Thendain> davva: incoming from keljoran@yahoo.com
<johnclark> so, send someone else davva
<Thendain> it is a nice coordinated, 2 wave attack.
<davva> like i said earlier not sure who is going to be around to discuss this info never mind come back and make a frim agreement. sorry
<davva> i'm not being difficult for the sake of it... but i amnot going to agree to something i cannot meet and make this situation worse than it is
<davva> nice one cheers mate got it
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<Thendain> if we Can get you till Mon night (72 hours??!?!) you Have to get a Firm answer in here at tht time.
<davva> ok then a firm answer it will be... i cant say which way it will be.
<davva> if it is peace we will comw with reasonable agreements to discuss.
<davva> it might not mean much but i put my word on it
<Thendain> ok. let's see what twinge/hampster say
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<[ROOS]Twinge> Seems reasonable probably, but we'll have to talk it over with those involved to make sure they'd agree, and to decide who the 'responsible parties' are.
<davva> ok so can we agree right now there are to be n omore attacks until we meet again on Monday night
<Thendain> ok. let's do this. No More Attacks till Mon night.
<[ROOS]Twinge> We will agree not to launch any hits on IPG from ROOS, but this agremeent is instantly dissolved if ANY IPG member launches on a ROOS member.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Define Monday night too ;)
<Thendain> davva attempts to get IPG to agree to the limited #2, and ROOS writes an offender list (short)
<[ROOS]Twinge> With different timezones and all
<Thendain> what time where you two are? (davva and twinge)?
<davva> Does this also include incoming attacks from BT and SDM... just covering all bases?
<Thendain> yes.
<davva> good
<Thendain> stop ALL attacks
<TsarVandall> is SDM incomping davva?
<Thendain> Since twinge is including them in everything
<davva> no no not saying that...
<Thendain> so if sdm or bt break this...roos breaks this
<davva> just saying that if we do get incoming from them then it is also over
<[ROOS]Twinge> As soon as we get ahold of BT, yes.  
<Thendain> agree twinge?
<Thendain> make it now. hustle
<Thendain> 'as for monday night....say...71 hours from now? about 23:30 monday GMT?
<Thendain> that is 7:30 pm EST state-side
<Thendain> sound good??
<kva> make it evo day whatever it'll be :-)
<davva> 21 or 22 would be better for me here (GMT+1) but i can stretch to that
<kva> 00 GMT - simpler to respect and no timezones involved
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<Thendain> day 153 ))
<davva> damn 1am in the morning mate... the things you do for peace :p
<Thendain> 00
<troyboss> hello
<kva> davva: almost 3AM for me :-p
<Thendain> 72 hours davva. doesn't have to be you....anyone from IPG that can agree/disagree.
<davva> i'll bring a football for the kickaround between the trenches
<Thendain> fair enough. :)
<Thendain> Twinge? agree?
<davva> cool sounds ok by me
<kva> but I took a sit on tribunes some time ago
<Thendain> just need twinge's agreement
<Hampster> our revised offer:
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<[ROOS]Twinge> Can IPG offer anything else if their members break this ceasefire again?  I personally almost expect some of the corsiars to break it
<kva> Twinge - let them deal with corsairs
<Thendain> at that point concessions of a Harsh nature Will have to come from IPG. no matter how much they hate it
<davva> if this does happen we will work something into the deal we come back to you with on Monday night
<kva> as I already said - if they break it again they will lose many peace agreements around unless they kick them
<Thendain> i can't do anything till that Happens
<[ROOS]Twinge> kva: Alright, so Rainbow will no longer get involved if they break it and the members stay in?
<Thendain> do you agree to the 3 day cease Twinge?
<kva> just give this war a break or it'll be like last time
<kva> yes, Twinge
<Thendain> that is the question. and that you come back with a short list of offenders and ipg comes to accept or offer new terms.
<Thendain> preferably to accept.
<kva> I already told you that we'll defend you if they do break this one
<TsarVandall> so long as IPG knows this kva
<kva> but none of the options you proposed are acceptable till now
<davva> i know it and will show the log file to those making these decisions for IPG
<Thendain> if they have to find out the hard way..they find out the hard way.
<davva> hehehe
<kva> TsarVandall: with enough warning it will be respected :-)
<Thendain> have i mentioned i **HATE** politics?
<Thendain> do you agree to the 3 day cease Twinge?
<Thendain> davva has.
<davva> was just thinking the same here
<Thendain> no ROOS, BT, SDM attacks for that 3 days too.
<Hampster> we are talking internally
<kva> hehe, we all hate politics
* kva sets mode: +o Duane
<Hampster> no RoO senior has authority on our own
* kva sets mode: +o Mrt300
<kva> sure, Hampster
<[ROOS]Twinge> We are discussing the matter
<kva> we're not asking you to reply instantly
<kva> but well, I got involved in this talk again :-)
<kva> instead of going to sleep as usual
<Thendain> and i'm needed afk....good luck all.
* Thendain is now known as Thendain|afk
<Duane> I think I have missed some big fun here by going out to dinner with my wife. All the threats and counterthreats. 
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* johnclark threathens Duane's ugly Dyrads
<Duane> What about the purty ones JC, saving them for yourself?
<johnclark> you gotta admit those dyrads are ugly
<Duane> lol
<Hampster> OUR REVISED OFFER! (BT has not been online, so they have not seen this)
<Hampster> Conditions:
<Hampster> 1.) Max, Che, Lekter, Piratski, Schual, Absolut, Pelze and Heinzi are offered to RoOS/SDM/BT as targets.
<Hampster> 2.) We have 48 hours to hit those who are not on holiday mode. Those who are on holiday mode we have 24 hours to hit when we learn that they have returned (No matter when they return.).
<Hampster> 3:.) There will be no defense sent by any alliance. 
<Hampster> 4.) If any member we are attacking goes into holiday mode while we are under rights to attack them, they must be kicked, or replaced with TWO IPG members of our choice.
<Hampster> 5.) Once all other conditions are met, there will be an immediate bilateral ceasefire. If ANY IPG member breaks this, (by attacking RoOS, SDM, or BT; at any time for the rest of the round.) RoOS will attack without quarter. (RNB must agree to not be involved. For the rest of the round)
<Hampster> g2g, Twinge knows where I stand
<Duane> lol
<kva> Hampster: that's even more hillarious than the first set
<Gigs> So if IPG find peace, no rnb, if IPG chooses to break it, no rnb
<Duane> What makes the ROOS think they can dictate anything to RNB?
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<Hampster> I'm not dictating
<Gigs> Thendain was brokering the deal Duane
<TsarVandall> remove SDM and start again, this is differnet war than last
<Duane> Sure sounds like it to me
<TsarVandall> i do not care of deceit and transgressions
<davva> i will take this back for discussion, is all i am going to say. i cannot see where the word negotiation fits into any of this.
<Gigs> It is just ROOS proposal
<[ROOS]Twinge> Tsar: And we do.  SDM is involved, and will be included.
<TsarVandall> show me how IPG violated ceasefire to SDM
<TsarVandall> it is up to IPG
<TsarVandall> but these options just only lead to escalation
<davva> i am writing the ceasefire pm right now so this will be with all members within minutes
<Hampster> not really
<Hampster> we get our compensation
<kva> night, all
<Hampster> you get peace
<Hampster> night kva
<kva> Hampster: you'll escalate it
<[ROOS]Twinge> We won't unless you do.
<Hampster> we only want to hit those who have broken the ceasefire
<kva> Twinge - no alliance will accept those conditions
<Hampster> no other member will be hit
<kva> they're ridiculous
<Hampster> they're negotiable
<Hampster> it is an offer
<kva> and well, we have 2 days to discuss
<Hampster> not a dictation
<Hampster> no Kva
<kva> so we'll negociate it tomorrow
<Hampster> we never agreed to monday
<TsarVandall> thank you :)
<Hampster> and I see no reason why we should
<kva> nevermind, I missed something
<davva> what is this about Monday..
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<davva> i thought we had made an agreement to ceasefire until monday midnight
<Hampster> someone proposed peace to monday
<Hampster> you had said it
<Hampster> RoOS never agreed
<Hampster> it is the exact same ceasefire IPG broke before
<Hampster> I won't start this all over agaib
<kva|zzz> Hampster: please repeat to me slowly
<Hampster> *n
<davva> what so now it is back to square one again?
<Hampster> repeat what to you now?
<kva|zzz> Hampster: you didn't agreed to cease-fire proposed till monday and came with another set of options instead
<Hampster> we revised our offer
<kva|zzz> yes or no?
<Hampster> yes
<kva|zzz> ok
<kva|zzz> night, all
<Hampster> we want peace
<Duane> Roos have agreed to nothing except that they will talk to each other IMO
<Hampster> permanently
<Hampster> not till monday
<davva> i am making no decision here on my own... that should be abvious
<Hampster> davva, all I am asking is your input
<Hampster> how do you feel about the proposal?
<davva> i have agreed to hold off until monday evening when we caome back and talk and hopefully finsh this by talking
<Hampster> I am in china starting monday
<davva> i cannot agree to those terms myself.. some seem reasonable but others would have to be negotiated with my seniours.
<Hampster> and which are those?
<davva> these are my words only
<Hampster> g3g
<Hampster> *g2g
<davva> i cant say any more
<Hampster> Twinge, ball is in your court
<davva> hang on rl calling
<Hampster> davva I suggest you start talking
<Hampster> RoOs won't go for peace much loner
<Hampster> *llonger
<TsarVandall> he is getting ceasefire arrangement til monday
<TsarVandall> and throw in you have already been deceived once on that,
<TsarVandall> IPG knows what is at stake if this ceasefire til monday is broken
<TsarVandall> well, I guess we are done with no agreements
<TsarVandall> it has been a wonderful time
<TsarVandall> but now I must move on
<[ROOS]Twinge> We are trepadacious to give IPG a ceasefire, not only because they broke the last one, considering it gives them times to build up to attack us again if they choose to decline our compromise proposal.
<Duane> Nice word Twinge
* Thendain|afk is now known as Thendain
<Bambi> master? 
<Thendain> wow. i leave for an hour and all hell breaks loose.
<Thendain> and that counter offer is worse than the original IMHO.
<[ROOS]Twinge> ...Howso?
<Thendain> and how does RNB end up as part of the proposal? RNB is not in this proposal at all.
<Thendain> if one of them goes into holiday Two others get shafted?
<Thendain> so for the actions of a person that May be going rogue, two others suffer.
<Duane> It isn't an offer Thendain it is an ultimatum to force IPG's allies hand
<Thendain> no...wait for it duane.
<Thendain> let me have 5 minuets.
<Thendain> minutes.
<Duane> ok, have your say
<Thendain> Also, you want to dictate for the Round? too much. you are negotiating THIS war.
<[ROOS]Twinge> If they are willing to do that to his own alliance, then they can be kicked for his actions.  That is the other option in that case.
<Thendain> and nowhere in your proposal is a time frame for acceptance.
<Thendain> how long do they have to accept Twinge? 24? 48?
<Thendain> or are you forcing the hand and causing the war to escalate and everyone to call in markers?
<Thendain> i thought i had a Reasonable offer on the table from your previous offer. what was wrong with my proposal to both sides?
<[ROOS]Twinge> Dunae: No, it is an offer.  Our initial list of proposed options were declined, and this is a revised one based on recommended compromises
<Thendain> you change from free attacks for 24 to *48* hours? that Is too much.
<Thendain> i like #1 of your proposal if davva agrees.
<Thendain> i like #3.
<Thendain> i do Not like #4 or 5 at all.change 4 to be included in 2. if they go holiday, they are targets when they come out.
<[ROOS]Twinge> We don't want to escalate this war.  If this war escalates, it is not because of us.
<Thendain> how long do you give IPG to look at this new proposal?
<Thendain> since their representative is going to Have to go to bed Soon.
<Thendain> i suggest at least 48 hours.
<Thendain> and what was wrong with my original compromise?
<[ROOS]Twinge> What was so different about it?
<Thendain> all i wanted changed from option 2 was to limit Who you hit.
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<[ROOS]Twinge> As far as time goes, I guess they have as long as they want.  Things would continue until they agree or offer a counterproposal
<Thendain> you come back changing time frames, saying that if they duck to holiday someone else Must be punished, and not 1 but *2* others.
<Thendain> ok. so the attacks stop till they agree?
<[ROOS]Twinge> No.
<[ROOS]Twinge> That would be unreasonable; they would simply build back up and attack us again, as they did last time
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* Thendain sighs. "so we are punishing a whole alliance based on the actions of about 7 members."
<[ROOS]Twinge> That's 25% of the alliance!
<[ROOS]Twinge> Since when in evo has a single member of an alliance not represented that alliance anyway?
<[ROOS]Twinge> If someone from ROOS attacked you, Thendain, it would be considered an act of war by ROOS.
<Thendain> since seniors talked from one alliance to the other about compensation.
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<[ROOS]Twinge> Doesn't matter who it was; even if it was just 1 person.
<Thendain> Right. but if it was a Single attacker..maybe 2-3 since you have a Large alliance, then a quick talk to your leadership from ours would negotiate a suitable counter attack and that would be it.
<Thendain> since we do not fancy all out war calling in allies with you.
<[ROOS]Twinge> In some cases.  When it's more than attack though, and done repeatedly, and done by seniors... 
<Thendain> so, what was wrong with just having limited targets for your original #2 twinge?
<Thendain> you still haven't answered that.
<[ROOS]Twinge> They'd all go into holiday mode!
<Thendain> and you watch and when they come out you get your 24 hours to hit them.
<Thendain> and when you come out of holiday mode is there not a time frame that you Cannot use it again?
<[ROOS]Twinge> Which would be a serous pain to suddnely interrupt what we're in the middle of to attack them
<[ROOS]Twinge> No.
<[ROOS]Twinge> You can go back in immediately.
<Thendain> drat. *sighs*
<[ROOS]Twinge> EBG abused that a few times
* Thendain sighs. "amend #2. targets limited, If they holiday you get them when they come out. If they come out for Less than 24 hours, then IPG needs to seriously think about kicking them out for being rouge members.
<Thendain> give IPG cease-fire for approx 48-72 hours to get word to all of leadership and get a solid answer canned and prepared.
<Thendain> if either side breaks cease-fire, proves it, then the side attacking has a Relatively free hand in negotiations for demands.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Not good enough, I'm afraid.  I've explained why we can't accept a ceasefire like that.
<Thendain> ok. then if davva has no counter-proposal, and cannot accept your counter, the war escalates?
<[ROOS]Twinge> We don't want it to, but if that is your choice I guess we can't stop it.
<Thendain> IPG is asking for help if the cease-fire doesn't work at all.
<Thendain> whether or not we accept is not up to me.
<Thendain> i'm just trying to negotiate a cease-fire that is Temporary that Both leaderships can be contacted.
<[ROOS]Twinge> 'your' meaning IPG/Rainbow/Whoever else might join with IPG
<Thendain> You, Twinge, say you can't negotiate for all of ROOS.
<Thendain> yet you are.
<Thendain> do you have a quorum of leadership in another window you are consulting with?
<Thendain> or is it just you and like 1 other?
<[ROOS]Twinge> At present I am talking alone, based on what we've discussed and decided upon previously.
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<Thendain> so your new proposals have Not been approved.
<Thendain> so You need time to go get them approved as well then, yes?
<Thendain> so when i modified your original #2 point you had people to talk to, yes?
<[ROOS]Twinge> They haven't seen seen by BT, but they've been seen by several ROOS Seniors that have now gone offline.
<Thendain> and were approved by them?
<Thendain> so, then one alliance is deciding the fate of 3?
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<Thendain> i see plenty of mention of contacting BT...but you are Not mentioning contacting SDM. do you have them in constant contact right now?
<[ROOS]Twinge> We have been in closer contact with SDM than BT as of late; one of the main BT folks we were in contact with is qutting Evo.  
<Thendain> and they are not handing off duties to someone specific?
<TsarVandall> it is not quite as important to me, but what are the Transgressions and whatever that SDM has gotten from this break in ceasefire
<TsarVandall> none of your answers are acceptable to include them in any option
<TsarVandall> but I do not speak for IPG
<[ROOS]Twinge> Tsar: And that's your opinion.  SDM will be involved in Option 2 (revised or not); that piece is not negotiable.
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<Bambi> Wasn't expecting duane1! 
* Bambi hides 
<TsarVandall> well, imo, we have nothing to talk of here anymore
<Thendain> that is fine. i never changed Who got to attack in #2.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Thendain: Not as such yet.  Mix ups like that tend to leave the group a bit disoriented
<Thendain> just who the attacks went after.
<Thendain> then the person that hasn't left yet still speaks for BT, yes?
<[ROOS]Twinge> They're gone already.
<TsarVandall> might as well throw into you options that you get to attack Sorrow freely as well
<Thendain> according to an IPG, he is being hit by him still.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Well, he hasn't be on IRC then, if that is the case;
<[ROOS]Twinge> He's gone as far as I know.
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<Thendain> ok. fair enough.
<Thendain> so you are talking for SDM and BT with no assurances that EITHER of them will follow what you propose.
<Thendain> correct?
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<Thendain> so i take it that my modification of your original #2 option failed for Some reason, and that you won't give me the (now) 70 hours of ceasefire since you can't control the other 2 alliances in any way, let alone trying to control Yours.
<Thendain> it sounds as though you are negotiating with No Authority here, and yet you make Harsh demands that are to be answered Immediately. Yes?
<[ROOS]Twinge> Incorrect.  BT agreed to the initial options as did SDM.  Eld just got online and is in agreement with the revised option 2 as well.
<Thendain> ok. so that gives us...i'm not sure who Eld speaks for.
<[ROOS]Twinge> BT leader.
<Thendain> ok. so that gives you ROOS and BT. do you have SDM agree to modified #2?
<[ROOS]Twinge> Not at present.  SDM is not currently sending any fleets at IPG anyway, though.
* Thendain nods. "ok. fair enough.
<Thendain> Now. we have that agreement. the problem we have now is that we do Not have enough higher IPG on to seal the deal.
<[ROOS]Twinge> We've made our offers, and some are more than fair.  We await response from IPG.  And that's about all, I suppose.
<Thendain> ok. and how much time are you willing to give IPG to respond?
<[ROOS]Twinge> I already said.  as much time as they need.  Nothing changes until they decline or accept.
<Thendain> basically you will keep attacking then until they accept or decline?
<Thendain> i don't really know the current who is attacking who situation except for the IPG attack going forwards right now.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Correct.  I've explained why we cannot accept a ceasefire for this weekend.
* Thendain nods.
<Thendain> ok. to sum up. modified #2 is free attacks on the people listed in the attack today from IPG.
<Thendain> for 24 hours.
<Thendain> then a bilateral cease-fire between IPG and ROOS/SDM/BT
<Thendain> yes?
<Thendain> if they go into holiday mode, you get shots when they come out.
<[ROOS]Twinge> You can scroll up and see the conditions.
<Thendain> got it. just need to get ipg to agree to the names too.
<Thendain> and the list of people is: 1.) Max, Che, Lekter, Piratski, Schual, Absolut, Pelze and Heinzi are offered to RoOS/SDM/BT as targets.
<Bambi> Wheeee. 
<FlyMachine> shutup Bambi 
<Thendain> any chance to change it to just ROOS attacking those 8 names as ROOS are the victims here.
<[ROOS]Twinge> How's that?  IPG is attacking BT as we speak
<Thendain> they are? i thought that the attackers shown earlier were attacking a ROOS person?
<Thendain> they are attacking a BT?
<[ROOS]Twinge> Those ones were, yes... BT is also being hit
<Thendain> oh? you have a news page from said target?
<[ROOS]Twinge> I don't believe we can offer any more concesions at this point.  We've been very reasonable with several of our options, and we await IPG's response.
<Calvinius> We feel that demand #4 is encompassed in #2
<Thendain> ok. IPG is informed of conditions.
<Calvinius> and that offering innocent IPG members for the work of others is not right
<[ROOS]Twinge> Choose how you will, Calvin.  IPG as an alliance has done what they've done.
<Thendain> ROOS is in an attack right now as well?
<Thendain> in answer to the IPG attack at 2,10,10:l?
<[ROOS]Twinge> That is of no importance to this discussion.
<Thendain> truely? ROOS is trying to claim victim, But organized an attack quickly after finding out about the attack that broke the cease-fire?
<Thendain> did ROOS attempt to contact IPG about the break before attacking?
<Thendain> and who did ROOS decide to attack?
<[ROOS]Twinge> I don't aprpeciate your insinuations.  IPG broke the ceasefire, and they've proven themselves to be completely untrustworthy on many, many occasions.  We had no reason to try and contact IPG; it's not like it was jsut 1 person attacking or something.
<Thendain> right, so instead of asking for renumerations against those breaking it, you attack other IPG targets. *shrugs* just finding out the facts.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Do you not understand a word I've said?!
<Thendain> are your current attacks against the IPGs breaking the cease-fire?
<[ROOS]Twinge> IPG has NEVER, EVER, EVER been honest with us.  Why would we try to talk to them in such a case?  It would only be to their advantage.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Thendain: What ceasefire?
<Thendain> i do. that you didn't ask about the break of the cease-fire. that you attacked, chose a vaild target that was Not a treaty breaker, and went back to full war, and then came here Telling them to give you something for the break of the cease-fire.
<Thendain> You said you Had one.
<Thendain> and that it was Broken!
<Thendain> are you saying that there never Was one agreed upon now?
<[ROOS]Twinge> Yes.  You said our _current_ attacks
<Thendain> right. which were made in response to the break of the cease-fire by those 8 ipgs.
<Thendain> yes?
<[ROOS]Twinge> The ceasefire was broken what... Tuesday, a loing while ago
<FlyMachine> ~~~~~~~
<Thendain> and you didn't attack at all, BT/SDM/ROOS until today.
<Thendain> ?
<Thendain> or have you been attacking Constantly Anyways?
<Thendain> and just now bring this Demand to end it?
<[ROOS]Twinge> ...Enough.  I will not stand by and let you attack our character any longer.  
<Thendain> then leave.
<Thendain> you disgust me for taking 3 days to start negotiations over a break of a treaty, and come in claiming victim while you are attacking back constantly. it sounds like the war never stopped to me now.
<[ROOS]Twinge> I won't stand for such base acusations.  Goodbye, then.
<[ROOS]Twinge> ...What?
<Thendain> it sounds like both sides never really stopped....
<Thendain> so both sides are victim to continuous attacks. such is life.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Hah.  Okay, that's a rather twisted and unusual interpretation.  I suppose it's your perogative to believe such.  Shall I take my leave?
<Thendain> of course.
<Thendain> leave when you will.
<[ROOS]Twinge> Alright, I shall not stay as you've asked me to leave.  Bye.
Session Close: Fri May 26 20:54:55 2006